Two gay couples apply for, denied marriage license

 

Adam Robison | Daily Journal From left, Robert Dashti and Michael Smith of Tupelo prepare to fill out a marrige application at the Lee County Justice Center as Lee County Curcuit Clerk Joyce Loftin goes over the document before they fill it out.

Adam Robison | Daily Journal
From left, Robert Dashti and Michael Smith of Tupelo prepare to fill out a marriage application at the Lee County Justice Center as Lee County Circuit Clerk Joyce Loftin goes over the document before they fill it out.

TUPELO – Two gay Mississippi couples applied for marriage licenses in Lee County this morning in an effort to show that there are gay couples in Mississippi who want to be married.

Robert Dashti and Michael Smith, of Tupelo, have been together for 10 years and Trey Goff and Michael Sheffield, of Starkville, have been together for a year. Each couple applied for and were denied marriage licenses under Mississippi Code 93-1-1.
The applications were a part of the Campaign for Southern Equality’s We Do movement.
The campaign’s communications director Aaron Sarver said after today people can’t continue under the current law with the presumption that there isn’t a desire for change in Lee County.
“We’re creating a public record so that now no one can say in Pearl River County or Lee County that there aren’t loving and committed gay couples who want to get married.”
Circuit Clerk Joyce Loftin said this is the second time she has had to deny a same sex couple trying to apply for a license in Lee County but couldn’t remember the year of the first application saying she only remembers it was years ago.
  • Bertholomew Stare

    I’m very proud of these guys for taking the first major steps towards change in a state (mississippi) that is always the last and most resistant to it. Congrats!

    • Alderman from Saltillo (BW)

      This is pure blasphemy!!!1!!! I am starting a new charity. It is called the BBB (not to be confused with the KKK): Bigotry without Borders or Boundaries. I hope you will all join me on the town square in Saltillo for a rally.

  • Zola

    Tupelo, Lee County, Mississippi is ready for this change! Proud to have been a part of today and looking forward to carrying the momentum through the years to come.

  • 1941641

    Slowly but surely Tupelo will shed the title “Dark Side” and will become the city it truly is–The All American Mississippi City where bigotry and intolerance is no more!

    • Alderman from Saltillo (BW)

      Well, I for one, hope that all of that bigotry and intolerance finds a new cozy home in Salitillo when it leaves Tupelo. We Saltilloians do not discriminate against bigotry and intolerance.

  • Jason Pollan

    full steam ahead.

  • TWBDB

    Funny. I heard about this yesterday and, until I read this article, I thought, as I originally did about those pushing for gay (same-sex) marriage, that this was an act of rash activism. I see that it isn’t. It’s simply people bravely and peacefully standing up to be counted. Bravo.

  • SaltilloFarmer

    NO !! Miss is not ready for this change. !!!! Bunch of idiots, believing they can do what they want.
    Voters have already voted on this, and a landslide win !!!!
    NO SAME SEX MARRAGES IN MS. Forget it !!!! Never Happen !!!!!

    • 1941641

      Pay close attention because it’s happening right before your own eyes. Human rights will prevail, Saltillo Farmer.

      • Alderman from Saltillo (BW)

        I will let you in on a secret. I am also “Saltillo Farmer”.

    • Bertholomew Stare

      I have heard that in a parallel universe the more exclamation points that you use in a paragraph, the more likely what you have written will come true.

  • W h hurst

    Wow! Sodom and Gomerica. We are definitely in the last days. Study your Bibles church. And be careful that you don’t buy into the vain philosophies of men (col. 2:8) Love them with Truth. The false church will tickle their ears.

    • Bertholomew Stare

      Woah… looks like my grandad has figured out how to post on the interwebs. Make sure to take your pills! When you forget, you end up posting things like “sodom and gomerica”, and “adam and steve”.

      • marrwood

        Why do the gays and gay lovers have to ridicule others and mock them as you and your other counterparts choose to do? Truth is truth! Does not matter if it was written 2000 years ago, it is still the Truth! Homosexuals are wrong. We do not have to accept your lifestyles or your wants! Those convinced against their will, are of the same opinion still! Make up your own truth if it makes you feel better about your sinful lifestyle of choice, but in the end, Truth (Christ) will prevail, and God’s word has spoken on the issue… Abomination!

        • Optimistic Atheist

          Yeah, the good word of God keeps us on the path of righteousness by warning us of many abominations: Things that live in water but don’t have fins or scales, eagles (our national bird!!!), eating offerings three days after they’ve been offered, a woman wearing a man’s garment, to name a few.

        • FrereJocques

          “Why do the gays and gay lovers have to ridicule others and mock them as you and your other counterparts choose to do?”

          Because you mocked them for years and years. And more than that, persecuted them and even killed them. Does the name Matthew Shepard ring any bells with you? He was a gay person who was kidnapped, taken to a field, tied to a fence, beaten to a pulp and left to die. Perps are now serving a lengthy sentence.

          “Truth is truth!”

          Depends on whose “truth” you’re talking about.

          ” Does not matter if it was written 2000 years ago, it is still the Truth!”

          I have come to believe that there are several kinds of Truth. There is Eternal Truth, such as the Ten Commandments. There is Past Truth, which was believed in the past because either there was no contrary proof or because of prevailing circumstances. Then there is Present Truth, which is based on scientific evidence and discovery, or new interpretations of Past Truth. Your belief of homosexuality being a sin is Past Truth. It is not Present Truth, and it is certainly not MY Truth.

          “Homosexuals are wrong. We do not have to accept your lifestyles or your wants!”

          Gay people do not care for your acceptance. All they ask for is your tolerance.

          Your last two sentences do not deserve a response.

        • Bertholomew Stare

          also, Brad/Donna…

          if you are going to be a bigot, you should probably attach your real name, and location to it. a quick IP search confirms you are part of the Saltillo bigot patrol. If you are offended by marrwood, please send complaints to his email at woodcock_b@bellsouth.net. Put your name to your bigotry.

          Don’t call me an idiot on these forums again. I could have posted your cell phone number as well, but I have morals. Yep, even us heathen sinners have morals.

          BOOM!

          • Bertholomew Stare

            Furthermore, since you work for the government, you do realize that any citizen can file a freedom of information request to see any and all of your emails sent on that computer and email account.

            I think its time to expose the cockroach behavior that is so pervasive in you bigots, especially in high ranking positions of government. I am filling out the paperwork (FOIA) for your emails right now.

            Also, Mr. Bigot, just because you delete them does not mean that they are not stored at the national database for FOIA requests in Langley, Virginia. You started this by calling me an idiot, and now I am going to finish this.

          • Bertholomew Stare

            http://www.saltilloms.org/departments/administration.html

            front row, middle seat, red tie. Take a bow, Brad.

          • Alderman from Saltillo (BW)

            This is not my best angle for a photo.

          • Alderman from Saltillo (BW)

            I got your post deleted, and you are now banned from the conversation! The power of public office strikes again.

        • Tammy Rainey

          “We do not have to accept your lifestyles or your wants!”

          Accept? No.
          BUT if you love liberty, as all Americans should, then you are obliged to respect the liberty of those who don’t share your views to live according to the dictates of their own conscience, not the dictates of yours. Or does your love of liberty only apply when it’s YOUR liberty that’s on the table?

      • W h hurst

        Sorry Bert. You can’t marry Earnie at this time. Love, grandad.

        • RBR17in14

          Who’s “Earnie,” grandpa?

      • OLEREB

        Hey Bert, Nice Picture it fits you to the tee. You not going to prove your point by lashing out at people who have different views from you. If you can argue your point without being a A-HOLE then your points will be taken seriously, until then SHUT YOUR PIEHOLE!!!

        • Guest

          Looks like someone else wants the Brad Woodcock treatment. give me a few minutes. I am going to expose all of you bigots. OLEREB is about to have a real name. stay tuned.

          • Guest

    • Tammy Rainey

      “Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me,teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”

      Ye leave the commandment of God, and hold fast the tradition of men.’”

      And he said unto them, “Full well do ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your tradition”

      Sadly, the church to day is more concerned with tradition than with love.

      • W h hurst

        Where you are right? A gay person is in need of biblical love, and that’s something the homosexual sinner desperately needs.

        Two problems with using this passage as an accusation to favor your point on this topic:
        One:
        Biblical marriage (between a man and woman) is not a tradition. marriage Instead, Scripture teaches that family was God’s idea and that marriage is a Divine, not merely human, institution. The implication of this truth is significant
        indeed, for this means that humans are not free to renegotiate or redefine marriage and the family in any way they choose but that they are called to preserve and respect what has been divinely instituted.
        This is in keeping with Jesus’ words, uttered when his contemporaries
        asked him about the permissibility of divorce: “What therefore God has
        joined together let not man separate” (Matthew 19:6). For this reason,
        marriage is far more than a human social contract; it is a divinely instituted covenant.

        Two:
        Advocates like yourself may end up being remarkably effective in selling your interpretations of passages in Scripture that address homosexuality in order to legalize gay marriage.

        However,
        God’s condemnation of homosexuality is abundantly clear–He opposes it in every age.

        - In the
        patriarchs (Genesis 19:1-28)

        -In the Law of Moses (Leviticus18:22; 20:13)

        - In the Prophets (Ezekiel16:46-50)

        -In the New Testament (Romans1:18-27; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Jude 7-8)

        • Tammy Rainey

          The one thing the traditional church is manifestly NOT showing is love. At a bare minimum, if they were, they would deal with the homosexual in the midst in much the same way they deal with the divorcee in their midst. I last attended an SBC church that was RIFE with divorce, and indeed many of the remarriages were amongst themselves strongly implying a great deal of adultery proceeding those divorces. in a half-dozen years there i never once heard the topic addressed from the pulpit. That’s typical.

          But moving to our points of dispute…

          “Biblical marriage (between a man and woman) is not a tradition.”

          Of course it is. what defines a “Biblical” marriage had shifted a number of times even before the book was completed and uncountable times since. David was “a man after God’s own heart” and he was rebuked by the prophet for his sin…but was he ever rebuked for having multiple wives? The various forms of marriage which the bible records without negative comment is far more than a one-item list. That said, I acknowledge that a perfect God has one perfect ideal for marriage, but we are fallen creatures in a fallen world and EVERYTHING humans do falls short of the perfect ideal, so it’s inconsistent to insist that one this ONE subject the government enforce a supposed perfect ideal and not in any others.

          Let me just take a moment, by the way, to note that a discussion over civil marriage isn’t really subject to the definition of “Biblical marriage” in any case. from the day that the church conceded to the government the power to officially recognize and enforce the beginning and end of a civil marriage, they surrendered the claim to define the nature of that marriage. Throughout the history of Western government the state has defined, and redefined, the parameters of marriage and divorce and the church has acceded to those changes. For instance, there was a time when a 13 or 14 year old girl could be married in this country, legally. So let us be clear, this discussion is about CIVIL marriage which is most certainly a cultural tradition which can and does shift over time, regardless of whether some argue that BIBLICAL marriage has not.

          Moreover, to insist that it is the role of government to enforce a precept solely on the basis that it is Biblical is to impose doctrine by force of law upon those who do not believe it which is an idea which is, rightfully, anathema to American liberty and has been since the days of the founders.

          Now, with that clearly on record – back to your points:

          “God’s condemnation of homosexuality is abundantly clear-”

          I will ask you a question I have ask of scores of my fellow Christians, and have yet to find one who would give me a direct answer – How is it that Christians recognize as an obvious reality that various sects can and do disagree on almost every doctrine, including the core foundations of the faith such as the nature of God and salvation, and respect each other’s disagreements (thereby implicitly acknowledging that imperfect men CAN’T perfectly understand God’s revelation) and YET, so many of them would claim that homosexuality is the one exception in which there is no other possible interpretation (Bert Harper actually said that on the air on AFR – “there IS NO OTHER SIDE on this issue”)? Please tell me: do you REALLY believe in a god who left ANY room for doubt about how one is reconciled to his grace, but left NO doubt about the proper use of the penis? Seriously?

          Genesis 19:

          the absolutely easiest anti-gay citation to refute. There are so many ways this logically falls apart one can’t present the counter argument without failing to mention some of them. most notably, the men of the city intended VIOLENT RAPE. Is it your position that if they had intended to violently rape females, there would have been no sin or offense to God? if you agree that such would have been likewise sinful, do you therefore conclude that the implication of that passage is that all heterosexual intercourse is an affront to God based on this story? if not, then how can you conclude that violent rape of same sex individuals therefore implies all same sex intercourse is sinful? context and a little logic goes a long long way in rightly dividing the Word.

          Leviticus 18, 20:

          Professors of Biblical studies, and all pastors, agree that one of the first things one must do in order to understand the context of a verse is to look at the surrounding verses (then you go on to consider the target audience, the writer, the situation being addressed, and so forth). In 18, the last preceding verse – verse 21 – reads as follows:

          “‘Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to Molek, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord.”

          How then is it not a reasonable POSSIBLE interpretation of this passage that God is here making commandments having to do with pagan worship practices common in Egypt and Canaan at the time? Anthropologists are well aware that fertility rituals in pagan temples routinely included same-sex acts, as well as ritual prostitution, beastiality, incest and so forth. One may also note with interest that there is no command here relating to two women having sex. is god therefore cool with lesbians in the law of Moses?

          In 20, the very first five verses in the chapter again establishes the context: ” ‘Any Israelite or any foreigner residing in Israel who sacrifices any of his children to Molek is to be put to death.”

          He’s pronounced a death penalty for an act of pagan worship and goes on to pronounce other death penalties. Again, no mention of female same sex interaction. Certainly one can argue that it demonstrates God’s disfavor on male/male intercourse, but one can also argue that all these fall under the context of the practice of pagans. i don’t think either side should be adamant in excluding the other view.

          Moreover, given the fact that we as a culture manifestly do NOT enforce all the precepts even in this chapter, let alone the entire torah, this citation is unhelpful in terms of instructing us how we should behave today as a church.

          Ezekiel16:46-50 – I’m uncertain why you cite a passage that not only makes no mention of sexual sins, but indeed offers the view that the sin of Sodom was more and beyond their sexual proclivities. I’m glad you did though.

          Romans 1 is also manifestly a passage saturated in the context of pagan worship practices. 21-23 clearly describes the context of false worship (“exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.”) and everything after that flows within that context. (“worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator”)

          Again, one MAY argue this reveals God’s view on homosexuality in general, BUT one may also reasonably argue that it speaks specifically to acts in the context of false worship. To argue there is no possible alternate interpretation is arrogant to say the least.

          1 Corinthians 6:9-10

          Again, no mention of women who have sex with women (which automatically has to make one question the context unless one assumes lesbian sex is not a sin) and, while this post is already too long to get into detail, there are reasonable doubts about the validity of the translation in this verse (and some similar ones). The cultural assumptions of the translator can and do bleed through in the choices made in the course of translating an ancient language. Again, this doesn’t PROVE the pro gay position, but it does illustrate that there’s a reasonable alternative view.

          Jude 7-8

          “sexual immorality” is not limited to behavior found only among same sex individuals. This verse only serves as a supporting verse in terms of the conclusions to be drawn from Genesis 19, which I’ve already discussed.

          In conclusion, I wish to restate the obvious for the record: we do not live in a theocracy and even if it could be established that homosexuality is sinful per the Bible, that is insufficient reason to legislate against it directly, or to treat those with a different view unequally before the civil law. Civil marriage has never been limited to merely a reflection of Biblical marriage (mainly because Biblical marriage varies within the text itself)

  • Sampson Chadwick Jr.

    My question is simply where do we draw the line?? If we allow these “people” to start marrying each other in a country founded upon Judeo-Christian values, must we allow them to marry their animals, or better yet, children?? Wake up, America!

    • Bertholomew Stare

      By any chance, are you an avid American Family Association listener?

      • Sampson Chadwick Jr.

        yeah, I do. Unlike you, I don’t have to be SPOONFED my opinions through the liberal media. Maybe if you listened to AFR, you’d learn what I have learned, that we may not have justice on earth, but God sees everything and one day these two abominations will have to repent of their wicked sins and God’s judgement will reign supreme.

        • 1941641

          “Maybe if you listened to AFR, you’d learn what I have learned,” What? Hatemongering!! SPLC recognition?

          • 1941641

            Does Jesus listen to AFR radio? NO!

          • 1941641

            Is Tim Wildmon a Human Rights abuser? Yes!

        • Optimistic Atheist

          Weird. I was raised by Christians and never paid attention to “liberal media” and I STILL came to the conclusion that consenting adults should be able to draw up government contracts that give them the same benefits that other consenting adults have.

        • FrereJocques

          Whether you want to admit it or not, the AFA is spoonfeeding you. It’s just that they feed you lies and enticements to send them money.

          I’m willing to wait ’til Judgement Day to see who repents of their sins. I think that on that day, there are going to be very many surprised and shocked people. Like when Jesus says to Tim Wildmon, “In as much as ye have done it unto the least of these My children, ye have done it unto Me.”

    • BadTeethAlan

      The slippery slope argument doesn’t work. There has to be consent (in our country anyway) between two parties to get married. We have no way to assess the consent of a turtle when it is propositioned for marriage. Regarding “children” we have age of consent laws that require a much older age than when some folks in olden days used to get married, so those are pretty secure.

    • 1941641

      Wake up Sam. America was not founded on Judeo Christian values!

    • FrereJocques

      Why do you put the word “people” in quotation marks? Are you implying that gay people are not real people? Hate to burst your bubble, but gay people are just like you. Except they hate other people a lot less.

      The “marrying animals and children” issue has been discussed and exploded many times, right here on this forum. No one is talking about bestiality or incest here. A straw man argument.

  • turniphead

    Bravo!

  • SaltilloFarmer

    All of you better take heed to what Sampson is saying. We all will have to answer for what we have done. I sure woulnt want to say I was for queer and lesbo marriages !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    One thing about it, the gay population wont bother me , because thanks to Mississippi, we still have open carry gun laws !!!!!
    Move to another state if you don’t like it here in MS, We are NOT ever going to allow anything except a man and woman union in marriage . Live with it or get out !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • countrydawg

      Those people you fantasize about shooting may be “open carrying” as well.

    • BadTeethAlan

      So you plan on openly carrying a gun to keep the gays off of you? You must be one attractive fellow.

    • Optimistic Atheist

      I can’t imagine having a mindset that would allow me to sincerely say we all “have to answer for what we have done” and then follow it up by insinuating that I would injure/murder someone for their sexuality.

      • 1941641

        Sounds like the Farmer may still be in the closet!

      • 1941641

        Or maybe the Farmer is trying to get on SPLC’s list of hate groups/people. He may have already succeeded!

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  • W h hurst

    All of us must remember there are other sins in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 that are listed with practicing homosexuality that bring condemnation. All can be repented of (change of mind and direction). Christ offers forgiveness to all. Sadly, there is only one of them with a growing agenda, believing a lie, and refusing to repent. Can’t redefine TRUTH. Heartbreaking!

    • FrereJocques

      I always get a chuckle when someone quotes that text. Gotta wonder, who are the biggest thieves and swindlers in the world today, and who are the greedy? Sounds like our political leaders, and our big business leaders, who conservatives seem to hold in such high regard. Also sounds like some “religious” ministries (coughcoughAFAcoughcough) who prey on little old ladies. How about the sexually immoral and adulterers? All those people that religious conservatives hold in such high regard. How about Newt Gingrich, darling of the Religious Right, who’s been married 3 times? How about Larry Craig, Republican representative from Idaho, arrested for lewd conduct in a MEN’S restroom? That’s just the tip of the iceberg. How about Ted Haggard, the leader of a mega church who was busted not once, but twice, for having gay sex, all the while protesting how straight he was. Upstanding Christian conservatives all. Wonder what God will say to THEM on Judgement Day? And you want to condemn gay people for wanting to enter into a loving, monogamous relationship? The hypocrisy ABOUNDS!

      • W h hurst

        I don’t condemn anyone. All of those apply to me as well, if I was continuously living in any of them (whether a conservative or liberal). Out of your list I know not their hearts. All I know is Grace is available for all who repent and turn to Christ as the way, the truth, and life. Christ gives one a new heart to walk in a new way. A new creation. Your right. who ever the hypocrite continues to be he or she will pay a heavy price on that day. All because a Christian points to truth, does that make him or her a hypocrite? I think not.

        • FrereJocques

          Please tell me, mr. hurst, how can you repent of something that is not
          wrong, i.e. is not a sin? You tell gay people they are sinning, they
          tell you B.S., YOUR definition of sin, NOT theirs. You think they are
          sinning. Why does this particular sin make you so angry? Why do you
          think you HAVE to do something about it? You wouldn’t be going after
          them on this scale if they were, say, cheating on their taxes, driving
          without a license, working on the Sabbath, or (heaven forbid) wearing
          clothes made of two kinds of fabric. WHAT IS IT about a gay person that
          sets you off? Why do you persecute them? What POSSIBLE harm are they
          doing to you?

          • W h hurst

            That just it. I genuinely have love for them. You may not believe that.

            When Christ came into my heart he gave me a love for all people. I want
            to warn gays because they are the only group of people (that God loves)
            that are desiringly fighting for their own unseen destruction. It
            ultimately is God’s Anger at Sin (not the person) that frightens me for
            them.

            18 But God shows his anger from heaven against all
            sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness. 19
            They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them.20
            For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and
            sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible
            qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse
            for not knowing God.21 Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn’t worship him
            as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish
            ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and
            confused.22 Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools.23 And
            instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped
            idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and
            reptiles.24 So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their
            hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with
            each other’s bodies.25 They traded the truth about God for a lie. So
            they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator
            himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.26 That is why God
            abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against
            the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each
            other.27 And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with
            women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with
            other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves
            the penalty they deserved.28 Since they thought it foolish to
            acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let
            them do things that should never be done.29 Their lives became full of
            every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling,
            deception, malicious behavior, and gossip.30 They are backstabbers,
            haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of
            sinning, and they disobey their parents.31 They refuse to understand,
            break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy.32 They know
            God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die,
            yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them,
            too.

            Romans 1:18-32

          • W h hurst

            Then there is the destruction of the culture and society. There is a way that seems right but the end thereof leads to death.

          • LeftinMS

            First Century Roman society and norms in regards to sexuality is very different than our society today. In today’s culture powerful men are not encouraged nor expected to have sex with male slaves and young boys. Paul was referring to the practice of pederasty.

          • FrereJocques

            ” I want to warn gays because they are the only group of people (that God loves) that are desiringly fighting for their own unseen destruction.”

            mr. hurst, do you REALLY believe that? And you don’t think that lying, cheating politicians and Big Business leaders, Big Bankers who caused our last Depression that we are still fighting to recover from, all those and other swindlers, are deliberately heading to their own destruction? You really think they don’t know what they’re doing? Why don’t you go try to save THEM from their sins? Those people are hurting EVERYONE: you, me, your neighbors, your friends, poor people AROUND THE WORLD. I dare say that a gay person has never caused you any harm whatsoever. Yet you choose to actively condemn and “convert” gay people. You are straining at the gnat and swallowing the camel.

            Regarding your Bible quote: Only a handful of people today worship Nature. And no one today worships idols (unless you count Catholics who pray to the Virgin Mary and various other assorted and sundry saints). As has been pointed out before, Religion was invented to explain natural things that could not at the time be explained any other way. And in peoples’ attempt to appease a god they couldn’t understand, they invented increasingly vile rituals in a vain attempt to appease said god. This is all well known and understood today. So why do you trot out this ancient story as if it has relevance in this day and time? Do you realize how big of a fool you look like when you interpret this passage in this way?

            That explains verses 18 through 26. The rest of the verses are a condemnation of believers in Rome who had backslid to their old customs that were the norm at that time in Roman life. Jewish and Christian customs and traditions forbade many of those common sexual practices, which included, as LeftinMS says, pederasty. The verses 29 through 31 also condemns many other sins they were committing, which Paul must have considered AT LEAST as significant as the sexual sins.

            Consider that, in the rest of the Bible, there is only ONE sin that causes God to abandon a person. That is the sin against the Holy Ghost, which is defined as a person DELIBERATELY AND CONSCIOUSLY rejecting God. So somehow, I don’t see sexual sins as being cause for God to turn His back on anyone.

          • W h hurst

            Your first problem: Not believing
            in the inherency of Scripture. Second problem: Trying to add
            philosophy and human ideology to the inherency of Scripture. The two
            preceding lead to the Third problem: Even though some of your
            historical content may be correct, you fail to look at systematic
            theology (what the hole Bible says ‘considering also Jesus fulfilling the law’ on your subject). The end result:
            You agree with parts of the Bible to fit either your own lustful
            desires or ideology. By the way, the Bible indicates idolatry of the
            heart which is still alive today (wanting something so bad that you
            worship it instead of God and sin to get it). All that one
            may refer to: religious scandal, political corruption, radical legislation, or the redefinition of marriage,
            homosexual interests have come to characterize America. That’s an
            indication of the success of the gay agenda.
            Sadly, when you refuse to acknowledge the sinfulness of homosexuality–calling evil good and good evil (Isaiah
            5:20)–you do so at the expense of many souls. Even if
            you could separate Homosexuality and a monogamist gay lifestyle, the
            gay person desiring marriage would end up breaking God’s definition of marriage….then leading to sex…leading to homosexuality.

            A gay person is in need of biblical love, and that’s something the homosexual sinner desperately needs.

            Advocates like yourself may end up being remarkably effective in selling your interpretations of passages in Scripture that address homosexuality in order to legalize gay marriage.
            However, God’s condemnation of homosexuality is
            abundantly clear–He opposes it in every age.

            - In the patriarchs (Genesis 19:1-28)

            -In the Law of Moses (Leviticus18:22; 20:13)

            -In the Prophets (Ezekiel16:46-50)

            -In the New Testament (Romans1:18-27; 1Corinthians 6:9-10; Jude 7-8)
            Now lets get to the root issue of why gay marriage should never happen:

            Because it overturns God’s fundamental design for human relationships– a design that pictures the complementary relationship between a man and a woman (Genesis 2:18-25; Matthew 19:4-6; Ephesians 5:22-33).

            Why, then, might your misleading interpretations of Scripture be successful at persuading so many? Simple:
            people want to be convinced. Since the Bible is so clear about the issue, sinners have had to defy reason and embrace error to quiet their accusing consciences (Romans 2:14-16). As Jesus said, “Men loved the darkness rather than the Light, [because] their deeds were evil” (John
            3:19-20).

            (Gays) Homosexuals stand in defiant rebellion against the will of their Creator who from the beginning “made them male and female” (Matthew
            19:4).

            Assuming your crafting (col.2) of separating gays from Homosexuality,
            it would still lead to it. Those who advocate that sin, are fundamentally committed to overturning the lordship of Christ in this world. But their rebellion is useless, for the Holy Spirit says, “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor
            homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor
            revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; cf. Galatians 5:19-21).

            So, what is God’s response to the homosexualagenda?

            Certain and final judgment. To claim anything else is
            to compromise the truth of God and deceive those who are perishing. I am not mad. It breaks my heart.

            I don’t know how it happened, but a few decades ago someone branded homosexuals with the worst misnomer–”gay.”Gay used to mean happy, but I can assure you, (Gays) homosexuals are not happy people. They may for a season seem happy because they live off of emotions. Emotions that don’t follow Biblical Truth are short lived anddeceitful. So, they habitually seek happiness by following after destructive pleasures. There is a reason Romans1:26 calls homosexual desire a “degrading passion.” It is a lust that destroys the physical body, ruins relationships, and brings perpetual suffering to the soul–and its ultimate end is death (Romans7:5). Homosexuals are experiencing the judgment of God (Romans1:24, 26,28),
            and thus they are very, very sad.

            God’s plan for many (gays) homosexuals is that they come to salvation. There were former homosexuals in the Corinthian church back in Paul’s day, just as there are many former homosexuals today in my church and in faithful churches around the country. With regenerated hearts, they sit in biblical churches throughout the country praising their Savior, along with former fornicators,idolaters, adulterers, thieves, coveters, drunkards, revilers, andswindlers (all of their lost friends who are still out in the world
            lost I do and desire to win for Christ,,,,,,NOT JUST GAYS (HOMOSEXUALS).

  • SaltilloFarmer

    When did I say I was going to injure or murder anyone ??????
    Should have know how stupid you are, you are a atheist , which is about as stupid as you can get,
    Why don’t all of you HOMO’s move to Calif.
    I am sick of all you HOMO’s !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • 1941641

      I didn’t know Saltillo had a “Dark Side” but it does. Real Dark!!

    • countrydawg

      My, some real witty responses there. You must be sick of INTELLIGENCE as well.

      But then again, you never possesed any, so….

    • FrereJocques

      “When did I say I was going to injure or murder anyone ??????”

      Why did you say that gay people wouldn’t bother you because you are carrying a gun? That statement implies something. In a court of law, that could be used against you.

      “Should have know how stupid you are, you are a atheist , which is about as stupid as you can get,”

      Gee, I don’t think it’s hard to figure out who in this conversation is “stupid”.

      “Why don’t all of you HOMO’s move to Calif.”

      Why don’t you move to Iran? They torture and then kill gay people there. You’d be right at home.

      “I am sick of all you HOMO’s !!!!!!!!!!!!!”

      And I’m sick of all you HOMOPHOBES!!!!!!!!!!! (Gee, I feel so much better now :) )

    • Optimistic Atheist

      Your use of punctuation marks is much more fervent than mine. This must be what defeat feels like. Glad I decided to scan all the comments and chance upon your reply to me which wasn’t even posted as a reply and is riddled with errors. If you’re trolling, you’re certainly doing it correctly :)

      Just in case you aren’t a troll, and are actually a dolt, a few things:

      1) I’m curious as to how being an atheist (or “a atheist”) is “as stupid as you can get.” Not having an imaginary friend to threaten people with has worked out really well for me so far.

      2) I’m not a “HOMO.” I am (a female) in a loving marriage with a man.

      3) How are “HOMO’s” possibly making you sick if you aren’t …..interacting ;) with them?

    • unknown

      Studies have also shown that atheist’s know more about religion than people who are religious. So who is the stupid one?

  • SaltilloFarmer

    I don’t care if you are a cow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Or married , or not , does not matter to me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    And , NO, you have not defeated anyone.
    And no , I don’t interact with LOW life Queers, and lesbos.
    Ya’ll can all marry your sisters and brothers if you want to, I am done with this low IQ forum.
    Get a life !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Ya’ll are all warped and clueless of what is right and wrong.

    • countrydawg

      If being “warped and clueless” means my posts don’t read like child-like scrawls and reveal a fetish for exclamation points, then I embrace being warped and clueless.

      A low-IQ forum? Irony, you cruel female dog.

      • Optimistic Atheist

        Don’t worry; it’s just a troll. If someone were actually this stupid, they wouldn’t be able to operate a computer.

    • Tammy Rainey

      you seem a bit stressed, friend. Have you considered decaf?

    • Alderman from Saltillo (BW)

      This man speaks the truth people!!! abomination!!!

  • ronb39339

    I think we citizens of MS have clearly stated that we do NOT want gay marriage.
    I wonder if these gays can be arrested for false pretense?

    • FrereJocques

      That vote was taken 9 years ago. Survey says that if the vote were taken again today, it would be much closer, and might even go the other way. People come and go, attitudes change, evidence mounts. The trend is now towards favoring the rights of everybody, including gay people. Get used to it.

    • unknown

      Mississippi also clearly stated they did not want to be part of the Union back in 1861. How did that work out for it’s citizens?

  • TWBDB

    The founding fathers stated that ‘All Men are Created Equal’: of course, we know this didn’t include minorities or women. It’s taken over 200 years for the USA to evolve into a society where this mantra could actually become a reality in application. Mississippians by far oppose this central mantra of the Constitution.

  • TWBDB

    Having very recently enjoyed the privilege of going through this process, I noticed a few things. Pledged no allegiance to God, the devil, or the state: made no promise to have children or even adopt: no mention of sex, religious / political affiliation, not even citizenship: just needed a state issued picture ID.

    Swore under oath we weren’t married to somebody else: made the choice of civil or religious ceremony: and received the instructions of what we needed to do to obtain the official marriage certificate once the ceremony was completed. Even received instruction on how a friend could be deputized or ordained to perform the ceremony. Had the offer to marry us right there on the spot.

    Nothing had been changed from the previously legal procedure with the one exception: couples of the same-sex were allowed to do it. We, the couple, are the one’s accepting all the responsibility, the benefits, and the risks associated with making this oath to one another;
    regardless if those things are civil, societal, or spiritual. It really and truly doesn’t involve anybody else.

    So this is the procedure all the fuss is about? A joy, a privilege, and a great relief for us: we sure have waited a long time. I can’t help but wonder how different our life would have been? And
    I’m thrilled for the generations to come.